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given an abstract description of
“male socialization” or “male privilege” it’s not like i cannot cast my mind back and find examples prior to transition that technically fit the simple description- as a trans woman
it’s that
- I’ve seen and heard the male socialization stories from actually cis men and there’s just no comparison. it’s a different thing. Cis men and pretransition transfems do not get treated or socialosed in the same ways.
- a cis man experiences those things as normal and expected. a trans fem experiences it as being forced into an uncomfortable role they do not wamt and did not ask for. the cumulative experience of that over thousands of instances year over year adds up to a whole different experience.
that is literally what being transgender is. And why it doesn’t make sense to say trans women have been “male socialized” no matter how legitimate a description you think that is to have in the world.
The imposing of that experience and expectation on transfems is an extension of transmisogyny- namely the tendency for us to not be believed about our own experiences.
Luci “Milky Princess” Tea
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so a critical thing that no one seems to believe understand or think about is, while trans men apparently want to hold onto “female socialisation” to describe the deep friendships they developed amongst girls, and women and in the lesbian community;
for so many transfems growing up our experiences are being violently rejected by both the boys and the girls;
The boys for not going along with their bullshit, not being super athletic, whatever it is, pretransition/closeted transfems are not enthusiastically participating in locker room talk or big nights out at the strip club
Cato
in reply to Luci “Milky Princess” Tea • • •Sensitive content
> while trans men apparently want to hold onto “female socialisation” to describe the deep friendships they developed amongst girls, and women and in the lesbian community;
Can you please not generalise like this!
Luci “Milky Princess” Tea
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from miakoda>>>
I would assume boys saying crass things about women/girls when they think they're in the presence of other boys wouldn't strike you the same way it would a cis guy. I'd asume it'd disgust you, anger you, or possibly even frighten. Am I correct in my assumptions?
<<<
speaking purely for myself, in the extremely rare case i found myself amongst groups of guys, i would kind of play along because i got the sense if i didn’t they’d beat the shit out of me for being a fag
Luci “Milky Princess” Tea
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right like i am not gonna sit here on my bed coughing my brains out and type to you like I and all transfems are saints who never subscribed or parroted any toxic gender norm.
but to put things in context i have met more cis women who have said really misogynistic shit about women than I have met trans women in total
Det. Rachel Ambrosia Costeau
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Det. Rachel Ambrosia Costeau
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in reality I wanted to be like the girls they were being chauvinist toward, so whenever they said something in that vein, I identified with the girls being targeted rather than the boys doing the lewd talking.
but, yep, I was totally "male socialized" 🙄
Luci “Milky Princess” Tea
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Luci “Milky Princess” Tea
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potentially hazardous object
in reply to Det. Rachel Ambrosia Costeau • • •Maya Granade
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Miakoda
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I would assume boys saying crass things about women/girls when they think they're in the presence of other boys wouldn't strike you the same way it would a cis guy. I'd asume it'd disgust you, anger you, or possibly even frighten. Am I correct in my assumptions?
If you "socialized" to find the way men treat women to be okay, why would you become the target? The "male socialization" argument seemed bunk on it's face to me beyond a few mannerisms.
Luci “Milky Princess” Tea
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Maya Granade
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thinking back to the classic male socialization events I did participate in, I invariably went off script by treating them exactly the same as any other event. Which meant a lot of the time they were unbearably boring.
Did* I have brain worms about gendered roles? Absolutely. Did I identify with masculinity and doing masculine things? Not really no.
* past tense just for consistency, I'm not claiming I've shed them all.
Louise 🏳️⚧️
in reply to Luci “Milky Princess” Tea • • •Sensitive content
I'm curious about the male socialisation stories. I wonder what I might have "missed out" on. I don't think I experienced a typical "male" upbringing.
Sure I was given boy's toys like cars and I played with them but I also played dolls with my sister. I did feel the social pressure to not like girly stuff so I knew to steer away from such things when I secretly liked them. I think this made me a very secretive person in general.
My father was distant and didn't encourage me to engage in any masculine activities. I was never pushed to do any sports or anything like that. When I got in to computers around age 13 I got sucked in and hid myself from the world in my bedroom whenever I wasn't forced to go out for school or whatever.
One experience that sticks in my mind is when I was in university, a friend practically dragged me in to a strip club and forced me in to getting a "private dance". The whole experience was really weird and uncomfortable and I felt really sorry for the young woman doing this "dance" for me. I felt completely disgusted with myself afterwards.
𐕣 V A L ░ E R I E 𐕣 🏳️⚧️
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Jade
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I like to think that those who use the term "male socialisation" often uses it in good faith and lack of any other term. I think a more descriptive term that applies to trans women is "forced male socialisation."
As that is what I hink most of us can relate to. That it was forced upon us, but failed in the same way trying to make a left-handed person write with the right hand.
Like @rachel mentions, it's more like a trauma to go through. So I don't think it's used by all to say we have been socialised as male, but more attempted to be, which adds to our trauma.